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	<title>Comments on: Justifying that LMS</title>
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	<link>http://www.jarche.com/2009/10/justifying-that-lms/</link>
	<description>Life in Perpetual Beta</description>
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		<title>By: Scott from Real Projects</title>
		<link>http://www.jarche.com/2009/10/justifying-that-lms/comment-page-1/#comment-191316</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott from Real Projects</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2009 09:42:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jarche.com/?p=2945#comment-191316</guid>
		<description>I attended an elearning network in London where one of the sessions was about creating the perfect LMS.

The gropu consisted of vendors, developers, buyers, HR professionals and users. In a really interesting session we were split into groups and asked to discuss LMS requirements from a range of perspectives from the learner to IT departments. 

The end result was a fantastic set of requirements and thoughts about what an LMS could actually be.

Barry Sampson from the ELN is tasked with documenting the input and I&#039;m sure this will be on the ELN website soon. 

The session was interesting as it featured a cross section of opinions and featured &#039;needs&#039; and &#039;wants&#039;. I was personally interested in the key features that people looked for and it was very different from the usual top 10 features in an LMS. Flexibility and personalisation came out on top in several of the areas.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I attended an elearning network in London where one of the sessions was about creating the perfect LMS.</p>
<p>The gropu consisted of vendors, developers, buyers, HR professionals and users. In a really interesting session we were split into groups and asked to discuss LMS requirements from a range of perspectives from the learner to IT departments. </p>
<p>The end result was a fantastic set of requirements and thoughts about what an LMS could actually be.</p>
<p>Barry Sampson from the ELN is tasked with documenting the input and I&#8217;m sure this will be on the ELN website soon. </p>
<p>The session was interesting as it featured a cross section of opinions and featured &#8216;needs&#8217; and &#8216;wants&#8217;. I was personally interested in the key features that people looked for and it was very different from the usual top 10 features in an LMS. Flexibility and personalisation came out on top in several of the areas.</p>
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		<title>By: MK Mercurio</title>
		<link>http://www.jarche.com/2009/10/justifying-that-lms/comment-page-1/#comment-191209</link>
		<dc:creator>MK Mercurio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 05:09:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jarche.com/?p=2945#comment-191209</guid>
		<description>Great comments and sadly, very true!  

Strange to think that colleges believe that students can&#039;t learn without an LMS. Wouldn&#039;t it be grand if the students were set free to find courses, data and information that would fulfill the course goals and then share them in a final project?  

The projects would no doubt be all over the globe and each would weigh in using the learning style that fits the student. Image the possibilities!
@mkatherine55</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great comments and sadly, very true!  </p>
<p>Strange to think that colleges believe that students can&#8217;t learn without an LMS. Wouldn&#8217;t it be grand if the students were set free to find courses, data and information that would fulfill the course goals and then share them in a final project?  </p>
<p>The projects would no doubt be all over the globe and each would weigh in using the learning style that fits the student. Image the possibilities!<br />
@mkatherine55</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Smithers</title>
		<link>http://www.jarche.com/2009/10/justifying-that-lms/comment-page-1/#comment-191202</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Smithers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 23:23:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jarche.com/?p=2945#comment-191202</guid>
		<description>Hi Harold,

I notice you use the word &#039;Adminsitrator&#039; and I&#039;m glad you didn&#039;t specify it down to an IT Admin. I&#039;m an academic turned IT Admin and am finding that the push for the LMS comes from the academic admin group not IT. I think there are other alternatives to the traditional LMS that could/should be used but we&#039;re bogged down by recording everything and insisting that students can&#039;t cope with multiple UIs.

@marksmithers</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Harold,</p>
<p>I notice you use the word &#8216;Adminsitrator&#8217; and I&#8217;m glad you didn&#8217;t specify it down to an IT Admin. I&#8217;m an academic turned IT Admin and am finding that the push for the LMS comes from the academic admin group not IT. I think there are other alternatives to the traditional LMS that could/should be used but we&#8217;re bogged down by recording everything and insisting that students can&#8217;t cope with multiple UIs.</p>
<p>@marksmithers</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Stowe</title>
		<link>http://www.jarche.com/2009/10/justifying-that-lms/comment-page-1/#comment-191198</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Stowe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 19:02:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jarche.com/?p=2945#comment-191198</guid>
		<description>I have thought about just going with the database approach. That is kinda where we are now and what happened is we have 2 systems. Neither of which was designed to do what it ended up doing and have become unwieldy and cost-prohibitive in the process.

A full project to scope a database for tracking purposes, custom-built for a company with an eye for long-term scalability is going to be a lengthy and expensive project so why not go off-the-shelf? Off-the-shelf and customizable to me would be something like Moodle with an open-source CMS on the front.

@Clark - Great! That is what I was looking for. You are right.  Currently we have some WBT and a test. Very lame and just enough to justify my job. I have inadequate testing systems and no budget for things like simulations and true proctored performance but I am hoping to head that direction by creating and supporting a robust mentoring program. Again though - the competency management  system would be great.

I need to pursue that idea more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have thought about just going with the database approach. That is kinda where we are now and what happened is we have 2 systems. Neither of which was designed to do what it ended up doing and have become unwieldy and cost-prohibitive in the process.</p>
<p>A full project to scope a database for tracking purposes, custom-built for a company with an eye for long-term scalability is going to be a lengthy and expensive project so why not go off-the-shelf? Off-the-shelf and customizable to me would be something like Moodle with an open-source CMS on the front.</p>
<p>@Clark &#8211; Great! That is what I was looking for. You are right.  Currently we have some WBT and a test. Very lame and just enough to justify my job. I have inadequate testing systems and no budget for things like simulations and true proctored performance but I am hoping to head that direction by creating and supporting a robust mentoring program. Again though &#8211; the competency management  system would be great.</p>
<p>I need to pursue that idea more.</p>
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		<title>By: Clark Quinn</title>
		<link>http://www.jarche.com/2009/10/justifying-that-lms/comment-page-1/#comment-191197</link>
		<dc:creator>Clark Quinn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 18:06:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jarche.com/?p=2945#comment-191197</guid>
		<description>Brian, related to Harold&#039;s response, it&#039;s not about the learning they do, it&#039;s the assessment that *they can do it* that matters. They could learn OTJ, previous experience, online, classroom, it doesn&#039;t matter; it&#039;s the outcome that matters.   

How do you assess that they&#039;re ready? A simulation?  A proctored performance?  That&#039;s what you want to track, and any finer granularity of where any performance gaps are if they can&#039;t.  Then, what&#039;s the best remedial path *for them*.  Might not be a course.

Really want a Competency Management or Assessment Management System: diagnose what&#039;s still needed, where difficulties are, and create learning plan, not what courses have they done.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brian, related to Harold&#8217;s response, it&#8217;s not about the learning they do, it&#8217;s the assessment that *they can do it* that matters. They could learn OTJ, previous experience, online, classroom, it doesn&#8217;t matter; it&#8217;s the outcome that matters.   </p>
<p>How do you assess that they&#8217;re ready? A simulation?  A proctored performance?  That&#8217;s what you want to track, and any finer granularity of where any performance gaps are if they can&#8217;t.  Then, what&#8217;s the best remedial path *for them*.  Might not be a course.</p>
<p>Really want a Competency Management or Assessment Management System: diagnose what&#8217;s still needed, where difficulties are, and create learning plan, not what courses have they done.</p>
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		<title>By: Harold Jarche</title>
		<link>http://www.jarche.com/2009/10/justifying-that-lms/comment-page-1/#comment-191196</link>
		<dc:creator>Harold Jarche</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 16:25:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jarche.com/?p=2945#comment-191196</guid>
		<description>Brian, if it&#039;s just tracking that&#039;s important then a database could be set up fairly easily. As for learning paths, I would find out what workers need, in the way of tools &amp; support, and there may be some effective and low cost solutions. Feel free to contact me if you want to discuss this in detail. I&#039;ll throw this question to my colleagues at the &lt;a href=&quot;http://internettimealliance.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Internet Time Alliance&lt;/a&gt; as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brian, if it&#8217;s just tracking that&#8217;s important then a database could be set up fairly easily. As for learning paths, I would find out what workers need, in the way of tools &amp; support, and there may be some effective and low cost solutions. Feel free to contact me if you want to discuss this in detail. I&#8217;ll throw this question to my colleagues at the <a href="http://internettimealliance.com/" rel="nofollow">Internet Time Alliance</a> as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Stowe</title>
		<link>http://www.jarche.com/2009/10/justifying-that-lms/comment-page-1/#comment-191195</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Stowe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 16:15:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jarche.com/?p=2945#comment-191195</guid>
		<description>I have been trying to figure out how to get away from an LMS  but I can&#039;t. I don&#039;t want an LMS and would love to not need one but I feel like their is no way around it if an organization needs to track who is trained and in what.

My audience is service technicians at truck dealerships and we are moving to a model where only trained technicians can work on our products. At our dealerships, there is a desire to establish and track training paths. I could go on but would be curious to know if you have any idea how to get around the LMS in that situation?

Thanks for the blog Harold!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have been trying to figure out how to get away from an LMS  but I can&#8217;t. I don&#8217;t want an LMS and would love to not need one but I feel like their is no way around it if an organization needs to track who is trained and in what.</p>
<p>My audience is service technicians at truck dealerships and we are moving to a model where only trained technicians can work on our products. At our dealerships, there is a desire to establish and track training paths. I could go on but would be curious to know if you have any idea how to get around the LMS in that situation?</p>
<p>Thanks for the blog Harold!</p>
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		<title>By: Harold Jarche</title>
		<link>http://www.jarche.com/2009/10/justifying-that-lms/comment-page-1/#comment-191194</link>
		<dc:creator>Harold Jarche</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 11:19:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jarche.com/?p=2945#comment-191194</guid>
		<description>I think (hope) it was a joke.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think (hope) it was a joke.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen Downes</title>
		<link>http://www.jarche.com/2009/10/justifying-that-lms/comment-page-1/#comment-191193</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Downes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 11:13:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jarche.com/?p=2945#comment-191193</guid>
		<description>Um... any detail on that item, &#039;kickback from the vendor&#039;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Um&#8230; any detail on that item, &#8216;kickback from the vendor&#8217;?</p>
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		<title>By: ismael peña-lópez</title>
		<link>http://www.jarche.com/2009/10/justifying-that-lms/comment-page-1/#comment-191189</link>
		<dc:creator>ismael peña-lópez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 07:24:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jarche.com/?p=2945#comment-191189</guid>
		<description>16. People would otherwise get lost &quot;out there&quot; 

(I&#039;ve heard that one sooo many times...)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>16. People would otherwise get lost &#8220;out there&#8221; </p>
<p>(I&#8217;ve heard that one sooo many times&#8230;)</p>
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