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	<title>Comments on: Working and Learning Together</title>
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	<description>Life in Perpetual Beta</description>
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		<title>By: Networking = Learning?</title>
		<link>http://www.jarche.com/2009/09/working-and-learning-together/comment-page-1/#comment-197284</link>
		<dc:creator>Networking = Learning?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Apr 2010 14:27:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jarche.com/?p=2820#comment-197284</guid>
		<description>[...] learned-centered &#8220;un-training&#8221; where workers are highly engaged and collaborate more. Working =  Learning and Learning = Working. &#8220;Un-training&#8221; must be easily accessible, more relevant and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] learned-centered &#8220;un-training&#8221; where workers are highly engaged and collaborate more. Working =  Learning and Learning = Working. &#8220;Un-training&#8221; must be easily accessible, more relevant and [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Retweet Culture &#171; Finite Attention Span</title>
		<link>http://www.jarche.com/2009/09/working-and-learning-together/comment-page-1/#comment-190630</link>
		<dc:creator>Retweet Culture &#171; Finite Attention Span</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Sep 2009 12:25:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jarche.com/?p=2820#comment-190630</guid>
		<description>[...] To be honest, I&#8217;d feel a lot happier if this whole story didn&#8217;t smack of correlational data being interpreted as causal in yet another attempt to show how society as we know it is circling the drain. Sure, I imagine if you use Twitter for nothing but exchanging 140-character messages, then it probably isn&#8217;t giving your brain the full workout. But what about those of us who use Twitter to pass along information about longer articles? I&#8217;ve read 10,000-word articles linked to from Twitter in a single sitting. Again, it&#8217;s all about how you use the software, a nuance that seems to escape the mainstream media most of the time. I really think that networking culture of the kind fostered by Twitter is a potential goldmine: there&#8217;s something there for everybody, and knowledge flow within a network is the future of training and education. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] To be honest, I&#8217;d feel a lot happier if this whole story didn&#8217;t smack of correlational data being interpreted as causal in yet another attempt to show how society as we know it is circling the drain. Sure, I imagine if you use Twitter for nothing but exchanging 140-character messages, then it probably isn&#8217;t giving your brain the full workout. But what about those of us who use Twitter to pass along information about longer articles? I&#8217;ve read 10,000-word articles linked to from Twitter in a single sitting. Again, it&#8217;s all about how you use the software, a nuance that seems to escape the mainstream media most of the time. I really think that networking culture of the kind fostered by Twitter is a potential goldmine: there&#8217;s something there for everybody, and knowledge flow within a network is the future of training and education. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Dave&#8217;s Whiteboard &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Snake oil, clubs, and real solutions (with thanks to Matt)</title>
		<link>http://www.jarche.com/2009/09/working-and-learning-together/comment-page-1/#comment-190621</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave&#8217;s Whiteboard &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Snake oil, clubs, and real solutions (with thanks to Matt)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 11:46:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jarche.com/?p=2820#comment-190621</guid>
		<description>[...] On this job, this means figuring out what can help people acquire and increase skills that help them produce things of value.  To modify the old story, it&#8217;s systems all the way down (and up).  You&#8217;ll find any number of ways of looking at this&#8211;the human performance technology model, for instance, or Harold Jarche&#8217;s emphasis on integrating how we work and how we learn. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] On this job, this means figuring out what can help people acquire and increase skills that help them produce things of value.  To modify the old story, it&#8217;s systems all the way down (and up).  You&#8217;ll find any number of ways of looking at this&#8211;the human performance technology model, for instance, or Harold Jarche&#8217;s emphasis on integrating how we work and how we learn. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Harold Jarche</title>
		<link>http://www.jarche.com/2009/09/working-and-learning-together/comment-page-1/#comment-190620</link>
		<dc:creator>Harold Jarche</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 10:59:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jarche.com/?p=2820#comment-190620</guid>
		<description>The patterns of power are definitely pertinent to the discussion of work structures. Power flows differently in networks than it does in hierarchies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The patterns of power are definitely pertinent to the discussion of work structures. Power flows differently in networks than it does in hierarchies.</p>
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		<title>By: Virginia Yonkers</title>
		<link>http://www.jarche.com/2009/09/working-and-learning-together/comment-page-1/#comment-190616</link>
		<dc:creator>Virginia Yonkers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 22:56:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Oops, Freudian slip...I&#039;m seeing patterns (perhaps where the power lies?), not powers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops, Freudian slip&#8230;I&#8217;m seeing patterns (perhaps where the power lies?), not powers.</p>
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		<title>By: Virginia Yonkers</title>
		<link>http://www.jarche.com/2009/09/working-and-learning-together/comment-page-1/#comment-190615</link>
		<dc:creator>Virginia Yonkers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 22:53:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jarche.com/?p=2820#comment-190615</guid>
		<description>I think there needs to be a greater understanding of the various stakeholders within and OUTSIDE an organization and their motivations.  Organizations look internally, often using top down management styles in an attempt to keep the information within the confines of the organization.

However, my research is finding that there are &quot;cross-border&quot; training motivated by customer needs and wants, professional standards, external reference groups (including political, religious, and cultural groups), shareholders, and internally, the group, department, organization, and even individual.  What I am trying to tease out is which knowledge and learning is accessed in which situation and who determines what knowledge is relevant when.  I&#039;m seeing some powers.  But I think many organizations wrongfully ignore the power of the external influences. These are then the influences that social media/networks drive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think there needs to be a greater understanding of the various stakeholders within and OUTSIDE an organization and their motivations.  Organizations look internally, often using top down management styles in an attempt to keep the information within the confines of the organization.</p>
<p>However, my research is finding that there are &#8220;cross-border&#8221; training motivated by customer needs and wants, professional standards, external reference groups (including political, religious, and cultural groups), shareholders, and internally, the group, department, organization, and even individual.  What I am trying to tease out is which knowledge and learning is accessed in which situation and who determines what knowledge is relevant when.  I&#8217;m seeing some powers.  But I think many organizations wrongfully ignore the power of the external influences. These are then the influences that social media/networks drive.</p>
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		<title>By: Harold Jarche</title>
		<link>http://www.jarche.com/2009/09/working-and-learning-together/comment-page-1/#comment-190609</link>
		<dc:creator>Harold Jarche</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 15:03:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Thanks for your comment, John. I don&#039;t think that standard hierarchical organizations can easily develop learning networks, but I see hope in working models of democratic organizations that are highlighted by &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.worldblu.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;WorldBlu&lt;/a&gt; or other non-standard examples such as WL Gore and Semco SA. For now, this is notion reserved, in practice, for more knowledge-intensive and creative industries but I&#039;m hopeful that we could see structural change in all sectors. The industrial model took a long time to become widely distributed, so I think we&#039;ll see uneven adoption of networked organizational models over the next decades. More organizations will have to face the fact that they are dealing with networked customers, suppliers and partners and will have to adapt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your comment, John. I don&#8217;t think that standard hierarchical organizations can easily develop learning networks, but I see hope in working models of democratic organizations that are highlighted by <a href="http://www.worldblu.com/" rel="nofollow">WorldBlu</a> or other non-standard examples such as WL Gore and Semco SA. For now, this is notion reserved, in practice, for more knowledge-intensive and creative industries but I&#8217;m hopeful that we could see structural change in all sectors. The industrial model took a long time to become widely distributed, so I think we&#8217;ll see uneven adoption of networked organizational models over the next decades. More organizations will have to face the fact that they are dealing with networked customers, suppliers and partners and will have to adapt.</p>
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		<title>By: John Truty</title>
		<link>http://www.jarche.com/2009/09/working-and-learning-together/comment-page-1/#comment-190608</link>
		<dc:creator>John Truty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 14:48:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jarche.com/?p=2820#comment-190608</guid>
		<description>I have been in the business environment for close to 30 years. I spent my time in a family owned multinational that at one time was heavily invested in the notion of welfare capitalism and where the associates truly believed that &quot;Managers, workers, customers and partners will recognise we’re all in this together&quot;. In todays world that seems less and less true. When one looks at the increase in productivity (BLS data) and plot this against the real wage growth of labor, one sees that what used to be a mutualistic exchange has become consistently one sided.  Not withstanding the rhetoric of the employ engagement/empowerment is there truly a big shift or is there a well crafted PR/propaganda campaign going on.  

My larger question, framed within the above context. is do you really think that  organizations can create (maintain and continually improve the efficiency of) these learning networks - even if hierarchy, power (of course within limits) and authority are more equitably distributed - given all other social contract changes? Or is this notion far less universal and reserved for only certain types of workers? 

A notion of connectivist learning theory (pressed into service within the organization) and employee engagement (the engaged employee willing gives discretionary effort that they might not otherwise have done) intrigues me... there seems to be a link here... like the useful creation of a common sense, Are these process normative or transformative?  My sense is as I read a series of blogs on the topic I get the sense that the authors are expounding a new transformed world, I fear it may be a creative re-invention of Taylor, Mayo and others - normative.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have been in the business environment for close to 30 years. I spent my time in a family owned multinational that at one time was heavily invested in the notion of welfare capitalism and where the associates truly believed that &#8220;Managers, workers, customers and partners will recognise we’re all in this together&#8221;. In todays world that seems less and less true. When one looks at the increase in productivity (BLS data) and plot this against the real wage growth of labor, one sees that what used to be a mutualistic exchange has become consistently one sided.  Not withstanding the rhetoric of the employ engagement/empowerment is there truly a big shift or is there a well crafted PR/propaganda campaign going on.  </p>
<p>My larger question, framed within the above context. is do you really think that  organizations can create (maintain and continually improve the efficiency of) these learning networks &#8211; even if hierarchy, power (of course within limits) and authority are more equitably distributed &#8211; given all other social contract changes? Or is this notion far less universal and reserved for only certain types of workers? </p>
<p>A notion of connectivist learning theory (pressed into service within the organization) and employee engagement (the engaged employee willing gives discretionary effort that they might not otherwise have done) intrigues me&#8230; there seems to be a link here&#8230; like the useful creation of a common sense, Are these process normative or transformative?  My sense is as I read a series of blogs on the topic I get the sense that the authors are expounding a new transformed world, I fear it may be a creative re-invention of Taylor, Mayo and others &#8211; normative.</p>
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