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	<title>Comments on: Time Out</title>
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	<link>http://www.jarche.com/2008/05/time-out/</link>
	<description>Learning &#38; Working on the Web</description>
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		<title>By: Dave Ferguson</title>
		<link>http://www.jarche.com/2008/05/time-out/comment-page-1/#comment-180566</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Ferguson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 17:56:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jarche.com/?p=1581#comment-180566</guid>
		<description>One paradox is that we can and do develop rules of thumb about the effort required to produce some result (product), yet each product&#039;s context is unique.

If we didn&#039;t have those heuristics, it&#039;d be hard to figure out whether undertaking project X for price Y is a good idea -- either for the independent worker, or for the client.

In the same way that people try to turn the 80/20 rule (which is more of an analogy) into a law of physics, people end up turning rules of thumb into micrometers.

Years ago, with a group of my peers who headed computer-based training in their organizations (large companies like John Deere, Holiday Inn, USAir, Amtrak), we tried to dig up some benchmarks for the amount of time to produce courses -- almost all of which were for training people to use the company&#039;s main computer application.

In other words, we roughly agreed on what activities would go into design and development, and used the system&#039;s tracking to get some idea of average completion time.

The end rations ran from 40:1 (development time to average completion time) to 400:1.  The variables were pretty much what you&#039;d expect: existing skill of the target audience, degree of simulation, complexity of the interaction, etc.

I would say, though, that in my work -- training people who used the Amtrak reservation system -- it was through this kind of benchmarking that we got better at rough-estimating how long the next task might take.  If you can&#039;t estimate within an order of magnitude (is it four weeks, or forty?), you need a mighty confident client.

Which is part of the point I see you making, Harold: the contractor and the client have to agree on the desired results, and neither can be too rigid about the path to achieving them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One paradox is that we can and do develop rules of thumb about the effort required to produce some result (product), yet each product&#8217;s context is unique.</p>
<p>If we didn&#8217;t have those heuristics, it&#8217;d be hard to figure out whether undertaking project X for price Y is a good idea &#8212; either for the independent worker, or for the client.</p>
<p>In the same way that people try to turn the 80/20 rule (which is more of an analogy) into a law of physics, people end up turning rules of thumb into micrometers.</p>
<p>Years ago, with a group of my peers who headed computer-based training in their organizations (large companies like John Deere, Holiday Inn, USAir, Amtrak), we tried to dig up some benchmarks for the amount of time to produce courses &#8212; almost all of which were for training people to use the company&#8217;s main computer application.</p>
<p>In other words, we roughly agreed on what activities would go into design and development, and used the system&#8217;s tracking to get some idea of average completion time.</p>
<p>The end rations ran from 40:1 (development time to average completion time) to 400:1.  The variables were pretty much what you&#8217;d expect: existing skill of the target audience, degree of simulation, complexity of the interaction, etc.</p>
<p>I would say, though, that in my work &#8212; training people who used the Amtrak reservation system &#8212; it was through this kind of benchmarking that we got better at rough-estimating how long the next task might take.  If you can&#8217;t estimate within an order of magnitude (is it four weeks, or forty?), you need a mighty confident client.</p>
<p>Which is part of the point I see you making, Harold: the contractor and the client have to agree on the desired results, and neither can be too rigid about the path to achieving them.</p>
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		<title>By: Harold</title>
		<link>http://www.jarche.com/2008/05/time-out/comment-page-1/#comment-180551</link>
		<dc:creator>Harold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 11:34:01 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>For sure we&#039;re seeing some changes, and as William Gibson said, &quot;The future is already here - it is just unevenly distributed.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For sure we&#8217;re seeing some changes, and as William Gibson said, &#8220;The future is already here &#8211; it is just unevenly distributed.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Michele Martin</title>
		<link>http://www.jarche.com/2008/05/time-out/comment-page-1/#comment-180548</link>
		<dc:creator>Michele Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 03:50:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jarche.com/?p=1581#comment-180548</guid>
		<description>Harold, I think you make a good point about the difficulty of making a ROWE approach work in a hierarchical organization, as well as the need for people to be well-educated on how it works. I would hope that this is the direction we&#039;re moving in. Prior to Henry Ford, we didn&#039;t have the organizational structures and focus on time that we do do today---that was an outgrowth of how the world changed with the advent of Ford&#039;s manufacturing processes and management approach. Those ideas worked for the time and the type of work that was being done. I have to believe that we&#039;re undergoing another metamorphosis now, although maybe it won&#039;t happen as quickly as I&#039;d hope.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Harold, I think you make a good point about the difficulty of making a ROWE approach work in a hierarchical organization, as well as the need for people to be well-educated on how it works. I would hope that this is the direction we&#8217;re moving in. Prior to Henry Ford, we didn&#8217;t have the organizational structures and focus on time that we do do today&#8212;that was an outgrowth of how the world changed with the advent of Ford&#8217;s manufacturing processes and management approach. Those ideas worked for the time and the type of work that was being done. I have to believe that we&#8217;re undergoing another metamorphosis now, although maybe it won&#8217;t happen as quickly as I&#8217;d hope.</p>
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		<title>By: chris</title>
		<link>http://www.jarche.com/2008/05/time-out/comment-page-1/#comment-180543</link>
		<dc:creator>chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 21:23:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jarche.com/?p=1581#comment-180543</guid>
		<description>I recall in the mid-90s, people would ask &quot;how many minutes&quot; our courseware was. Such a simlistic question, as though we were stamping out widgets. Helps to sort the wheat from the chaff...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I recall in the mid-90s, people would ask &#8220;how many minutes&#8221; our courseware was. Such a simlistic question, as though we were stamping out widgets. Helps to sort the wheat from the chaff&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Jon Husband</title>
		<link>http://www.jarche.com/2008/05/time-out/comment-page-1/#comment-180540</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Husband</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 19:51:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jarche.com/?p=1581#comment-180540</guid>
		<description>one-mindedness sb open-mindedness</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>one-mindedness sb open-mindedness</p>
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		<title>By: Jon Husband</title>
		<link>http://www.jarche.com/2008/05/time-out/comment-page-1/#comment-180539</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Husband</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 19:50:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Both the post and Gilbert&#039;s comment fit with what I have called the &quot;mass customization of work&quot;, IMHO.  Coming soon to a network near you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Both the post and Gilbert&#8217;s comment fit with what I have called the &#8220;mass customization of work&#8221;, IMHO.  Coming soon to a network near you.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon Husband</title>
		<link>http://www.jarche.com/2008/05/time-out/comment-page-1/#comment-180538</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Husband</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 19:48:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jarche.com/?p=1581#comment-180538</guid>
		<description>I agree with your perspective, Harold .. have thought the same many times.

I generally agree with Gilbert&#039;s points, but supposedly we have a well-educated work force, doncha know.  I&#039;d argue that we need kless &quot;education&quot; and more learning, one-mindedness and much better collaboration skills .. s different sort of &quot;well-educated&quot;, I suppose.

Yes, we will have to learn to deliver in asynchoronous ways.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with your perspective, Harold .. have thought the same many times.</p>
<p>I generally agree with Gilbert&#8217;s points, but supposedly we have a well-educated work force, doncha know.  I&#8217;d argue that we need kless &#8220;education&#8221; and more learning, one-mindedness and much better collaboration skills .. s different sort of &#8220;well-educated&#8221;, I suppose.</p>
<p>Yes, we will have to learn to deliver in asynchoronous ways.</p>
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		<title>By: Harold</title>
		<link>http://www.jarche.com/2008/05/time-out/comment-page-1/#comment-180534</link>
		<dc:creator>Harold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 12:54:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jarche.com/?p=1581#comment-180534</guid>
		<description>I like your sync/async perspective, Gilbert. It&#039;s a very useful lens.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like your sync/async perspective, Gilbert. It&#8217;s a very useful lens.</p>
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		<title>By: Gilbert</title>
		<link>http://www.jarche.com/2008/05/time-out/comment-page-1/#comment-180533</link>
		<dc:creator>Gilbert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 12:46:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jarche.com/?p=1581#comment-180533</guid>
		<description>Time oriented is  simple.  All you have to do is show up to work and punch in/out time cards.  This system requires supervision and you have to be at work at the same time as your supervisors.

ROWE is more complex and requires a well educated work force. It requires skills sets suited for results oriented work. 

I have seen first hand how difficult it is to implement result oriented approaches in the IT project management field.   For results oriented to succeed you need a critical mass of team players that really understand the approach.   You also need well educated managers and project managers that understand results oriented. 

Time,motion, and method studies are still required with results oriented.  I would even say that they are more important with results oriented than with time oriented.  Time is a scarce resource for any living being and proper use of time and energy will always be important.

I think the problems with time based is more one of synchronous vs asynchronous.  The industrial revolution create the synchronous man.  (everyone eats at the same hour).  Information technologies and transportation now makes it possible to return to asynchronous production modes.  

Note that Results oriented will also transform considerably over the next few years.  That concept will adapt to a network/packet paradigm and we should see smaller and smaller parcels for delivery by one production unit.  The baby boomers will soon be out of the production processes.  


In my opinion we will get better yield if we think in terms of synch/asynch rather that   time vs results oriented.   We will have to learn how to deliver in asynchronous manners.

Gilbert</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Time oriented is  simple.  All you have to do is show up to work and punch in/out time cards.  This system requires supervision and you have to be at work at the same time as your supervisors.</p>
<p>ROWE is more complex and requires a well educated work force. It requires skills sets suited for results oriented work. </p>
<p>I have seen first hand how difficult it is to implement result oriented approaches in the IT project management field.   For results oriented to succeed you need a critical mass of team players that really understand the approach.   You also need well educated managers and project managers that understand results oriented. </p>
<p>Time,motion, and method studies are still required with results oriented.  I would even say that they are more important with results oriented than with time oriented.  Time is a scarce resource for any living being and proper use of time and energy will always be important.</p>
<p>I think the problems with time based is more one of synchronous vs asynchronous.  The industrial revolution create the synchronous man.  (everyone eats at the same hour).  Information technologies and transportation now makes it possible to return to asynchronous production modes.  </p>
<p>Note that Results oriented will also transform considerably over the next few years.  That concept will adapt to a network/packet paradigm and we should see smaller and smaller parcels for delivery by one production unit.  The baby boomers will soon be out of the production processes.  </p>
<p>In my opinion we will get better yield if we think in terms of synch/asynch rather that   time vs results oriented.   We will have to learn how to deliver in asynchronous manners.</p>
<p>Gilbert</p>
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