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	<title>Comments on: High School Confidential</title>
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	<description>Life in Perpetual Beta</description>
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		<title>By: Harold</title>
		<link>http://www.jarche.com/2006/09/high-school-confidential/comment-page-1/#comment-15087</link>
		<dc:creator>Harold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Oct 2006 13:41:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jarche.com/?p=887#comment-15087</guid>
		<description>Here is a summation of what is wrong with the model of jumping from one unrelated class to the next:

&quot;Cognitive psychology has shown that the mind best understands facts when they are woven into a conceptual fabric, such as a narrative, mental map, or intuitive theory. Disconnected facts in the mind are like unlinked pages on the Web: They might as well not exist. Science has to be taught in a way that knowledge is organized, one hopes permanently, in the minds of students.&quot;

Source:
http://pinker.wjh.harvard.edu/articles/media/2005_11_16_slate.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is a summation of what is wrong with the model of jumping from one unrelated class to the next:</p>
<p>&#8220;Cognitive psychology has shown that the mind best understands facts when they are woven into a conceptual fabric, such as a narrative, mental map, or intuitive theory. Disconnected facts in the mind are like unlinked pages on the Web: They might as well not exist. Science has to be taught in a way that knowledge is organized, one hopes permanently, in the minds of students.&#8221;</p>
<p>Source:<br />
<a href="http://pinker.wjh.harvard.edu/articles/media/2005_11_16_slate.html" rel="nofollow">http://pinker.wjh.harvard.edu/articles/media/2005_11_16_slate.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Harold Jarche &#187; Learning Quote of the Year</title>
		<link>http://www.jarche.com/2006/09/high-school-confidential/comment-page-1/#comment-13583</link>
		<dc:creator>Harold Jarche &#187; Learning Quote of the Year</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Oct 2006 13:17:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jarche.com/?p=887#comment-13583</guid>
		<description>[...] Kathy Sierra sums up the problems with mass schooling that I&#8217;ve discussed over the year, with Knocking the Exuberance Out of Employees: If you knock out exuberance, you knock out curiosity, and curiosity is the single most important attribute in a world that requires continuous learning and unlearning just to keep up. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Kathy Sierra sums up the problems with mass schooling that I&#8217;ve discussed over the year, with Knocking the Exuberance Out of Employees: If you knock out exuberance, you knock out curiosity, and curiosity is the single most important attribute in a world that requires continuous learning and unlearning just to keep up. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Harold</title>
		<link>http://www.jarche.com/2006/09/high-school-confidential/comment-page-1/#comment-13143</link>
		<dc:creator>Harold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Oct 2006 21:02:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jarche.com/?p=887#comment-13143</guid>
		<description>Maybe not scientific, but  at least science based, not like Bloom&#039;s &quot;best guess&quot;. Here&#039;s one of my favourite examples of info on neurolearning:
http://eideneurolearningblog.blogspot.com/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe not scientific, but  at least science based, not like Bloom&#8217;s &#8220;best guess&#8221;. Here&#8217;s one of my favourite examples of info on neurolearning:<br />
<a href="http://eideneurolearningblog.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">http://eideneurolearningblog.blogspot.com/</a></p>
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		<title>By: dave cormier</title>
		<link>http://www.jarche.com/2006/09/high-school-confidential/comment-page-1/#comment-13134</link>
		<dc:creator>dave cormier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Oct 2006 16:09:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jarche.com/?p=887#comment-13134</guid>
		<description>mmm... i agree with you on most counts but find myself flinching at your description of &#039;scientific proof&#039; regarding learning. I wonder if your skepticism applies equally towards the people you do and don&#039;t agree with. Got some more links on &#039;scientific research&#039; for us?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>mmm&#8230; i agree with you on most counts but find myself flinching at your description of &#8216;scientific proof&#8217; regarding learning. I wonder if your skepticism applies equally towards the people you do and don&#8217;t agree with. Got some more links on &#8216;scientific research&#8217; for us?</p>
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		<title>By: Karyn Romeis</title>
		<link>http://www.jarche.com/2006/09/high-school-confidential/comment-page-1/#comment-11856</link>
		<dc:creator>Karyn Romeis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Sep 2006 10:40:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jarche.com/?p=887#comment-11856</guid>
		<description>Kevin - I think it is dangerous to presuppose that kids are by definition not interested in learning associated with school and/or adult supervision, but I get your point. I still maintain that a lot of damage could be undone if the school day were made shorter and the starting age older. I object with every fibre of my being to seeing babies in uniform. My kids were still taking an afternoon nap at the age that British children are fastened to a desk! And to what end? Where&#039;s the benefit?

I agree with the danger as identified by Paul Goodman, but perhaps parents could shoulder more of the responsibility of facilitating the pursuance of hobbies and self directed play/learning? I have noticed a distinct abdication of parental responsibility in the UK that has probably been fostered by what is often called the nanny state.

I&#039;m totally with you that the current system presumes too much upon a child&#039;s out of school days. My kids have yet to bring home a reading list, though. To be honest, my elder son would probably have read most of what would be on it, and my younger son wouldn&#039;t be remotely interested. He would probably hire the DVDs, and then open a family discussion on where the DVD had deviated from the original text, knowing that he could rely on at least one member of the family having read the book. If the DVD were unavailable, he might get the audio book and listen to it while playing on his PS2. Both my kids are total LoTR fans - one read every word at the age of about 9, the other made it to chapter 2 of The Hobbit before giving up. He came to know the material through the extended DVDs, family debates about whether or not Elijah Wood looked anything like Frodo Baggins (I think not, but am prepared to get over it and enjoy the movie anyway) and pontifications from his brother who can be a Tolkien-bore. Is one&#039;s passion more valid than the other?

I do wish my younger son loved to read texts - it is a pastime that opens doors to many wonders - but he doesn&#039;t and there it is. He hates the solitariness of reading. We have explored and found alternatives for him to enjoy, but I regard that as a parental responsibility, not a school one.

Oh, and by the way - I&#039;m a Watership Down fan too. Have you ever read Tailchaser&#039;s Song (Tad Williams)? &lt;a&gt;http://www.amazon.com/Tailchasers-Song-Anniversary-Tad-Williams/dp/customer-reviews/0886773741&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin &#8211; I think it is dangerous to presuppose that kids are by definition not interested in learning associated with school and/or adult supervision, but I get your point. I still maintain that a lot of damage could be undone if the school day were made shorter and the starting age older. I object with every fibre of my being to seeing babies in uniform. My kids were still taking an afternoon nap at the age that British children are fastened to a desk! And to what end? Where&#8217;s the benefit?</p>
<p>I agree with the danger as identified by Paul Goodman, but perhaps parents could shoulder more of the responsibility of facilitating the pursuance of hobbies and self directed play/learning? I have noticed a distinct abdication of parental responsibility in the UK that has probably been fostered by what is often called the nanny state.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m totally with you that the current system presumes too much upon a child&#8217;s out of school days. My kids have yet to bring home a reading list, though. To be honest, my elder son would probably have read most of what would be on it, and my younger son wouldn&#8217;t be remotely interested. He would probably hire the DVDs, and then open a family discussion on where the DVD had deviated from the original text, knowing that he could rely on at least one member of the family having read the book. If the DVD were unavailable, he might get the audio book and listen to it while playing on his PS2. Both my kids are total LoTR fans &#8211; one read every word at the age of about 9, the other made it to chapter 2 of The Hobbit before giving up. He came to know the material through the extended DVDs, family debates about whether or not Elijah Wood looked anything like Frodo Baggins (I think not, but am prepared to get over it and enjoy the movie anyway) and pontifications from his brother who can be a Tolkien-bore. Is one&#8217;s passion more valid than the other?</p>
<p>I do wish my younger son loved to read texts &#8211; it is a pastime that opens doors to many wonders &#8211; but he doesn&#8217;t and there it is. He hates the solitariness of reading. We have explored and found alternatives for him to enjoy, but I regard that as a parental responsibility, not a school one.</p>
<p>Oh, and by the way &#8211; I&#8217;m a Watership Down fan too. Have you ever read Tailchaser&#8217;s Song (Tad Williams)? <a>http://www.amazon.com/Tailchasers-Song-Anniversary-Tad-Williams/dp/customer-reviews/0886773741</a></p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Carson</title>
		<link>http://www.jarche.com/2006/09/high-school-confidential/comment-page-1/#comment-11600</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Carson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Sep 2006 04:36:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jarche.com/?p=887#comment-11600</guid>
		<description>Harold,

What you witnessed from the teachers--obviously well-meaning and dedicated people, who nevertheless mindlessly repeated institutional dogma without any evidence of having even suspected it might be just that--is called &quot;learned incapacity.&quot;  They were &quot;educated&quot; out of most of their critical thinking skills.

Karyn,

Homework also crowds out time that could be spent on self-directed learning about stuff the kid is interested in.  Paul Goodman observed that one of the lessons inculated in school is that anything you pursue for your own purposes is a &quot;hobby,&quot; i.e., comparatively trivial, while anything assigned by a teacher or a boss is important.  The other lesson, as Ivan Illich described it, is that learning is a commodity that can only be dispensed by properly qualified &quot;professionals.&quot;

Just before school started, I saw a sign at Hastings announcing that they had Watership Down (one of the books on the required summer reading list).  I was never given a summer reading list, thank God (back in those days, the publik skools here didn&#039;t yet have the presumption to claim control over 100% of your time), and I first read Watership Down as a young adult.  I&#039;m grateful that I wasn&#039;t taught to hate that wonderful book, as I surely would have been had I been commanded to readed it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Harold,</p>
<p>What you witnessed from the teachers&#8211;obviously well-meaning and dedicated people, who nevertheless mindlessly repeated institutional dogma without any evidence of having even suspected it might be just that&#8211;is called &#8220;learned incapacity.&#8221;  They were &#8220;educated&#8221; out of most of their critical thinking skills.</p>
<p>Karyn,</p>
<p>Homework also crowds out time that could be spent on self-directed learning about stuff the kid is interested in.  Paul Goodman observed that one of the lessons inculated in school is that anything you pursue for your own purposes is a &#8220;hobby,&#8221; i.e., comparatively trivial, while anything assigned by a teacher or a boss is important.  The other lesson, as Ivan Illich described it, is that learning is a commodity that can only be dispensed by properly qualified &#8220;professionals.&#8221;</p>
<p>Just before school started, I saw a sign at Hastings announcing that they had Watership Down (one of the books on the required summer reading list).  I was never given a summer reading list, thank God (back in those days, the publik skools here didn&#8217;t yet have the presumption to claim control over 100% of your time), and I first read Watership Down as a young adult.  I&#8217;m grateful that I wasn&#8217;t taught to hate that wonderful book, as I surely would have been had I been commanded to readed it.</p>
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		<title>By: Will Richardson</title>
		<link>http://www.jarche.com/2006/09/high-school-confidential/comment-page-1/#comment-11456</link>
		<dc:creator>Will Richardson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Sep 2006 19:01:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jarche.com/?p=887#comment-11456</guid>
		<description>Harold,
Just to remind you how good things were in elementary school...last night, my daughter&#039;s 4th grade teacher gave these three rules for success:
1. Follow the rules.
2. Do the work.
3. Do your best.
Oy. The rules are stupid. The work is stupid. Why should my kid do her best at stupid things?
Thanks for sharing what I can look forward to ;0)
Best,
Will</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Harold,<br />
Just to remind you how good things were in elementary school&#8230;last night, my daughter&#8217;s 4th grade teacher gave these three rules for success:<br />
1. Follow the rules.<br />
2. Do the work.<br />
3. Do your best.<br />
Oy. The rules are stupid. The work is stupid. Why should my kid do her best at stupid things?<br />
Thanks for sharing what I can look forward to ;0)<br />
Best,<br />
Will</p>
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		<title>By: Harold</title>
		<link>http://www.jarche.com/2006/09/high-school-confidential/comment-page-1/#comment-11371</link>
		<dc:creator>Harold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Sep 2006 10:52:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jarche.com/?p=887#comment-11371</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your comments, Karyn. I, too, used to think that homework was a good idea, but in reading the Homework Myth and other criticisms, I realise that there is no evidence to support homework. It does not result in better understanding, it does not reinforce concepts covered in school and it forces families to use their time to do what the state has decreed. I consider homework, for the most part, an invasion of our family time.

Also, time after school could be used to do community work or volunteering, instead of repetitious homework, for as John Gatto said in a TV interview, &quot;to do your homework is a fake responsibility&quot;.

Given all that we know about learning today, it&#039;s amazing that our schooling has not really changed for the past 100 years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your comments, Karyn. I, too, used to think that homework was a good idea, but in reading the Homework Myth and other criticisms, I realise that there is no evidence to support homework. It does not result in better understanding, it does not reinforce concepts covered in school and it forces families to use their time to do what the state has decreed. I consider homework, for the most part, an invasion of our family time.</p>
<p>Also, time after school could be used to do community work or volunteering, instead of repetitious homework, for as John Gatto said in a TV interview, &#8220;to do your homework is a fake responsibility&#8221;.</p>
<p>Given all that we know about learning today, it&#8217;s amazing that our schooling has not really changed for the past 100 years.</p>
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		<title>By: Karyn Romeis</title>
		<link>http://www.jarche.com/2006/09/high-school-confidential/comment-page-1/#comment-11353</link>
		<dc:creator>Karyn Romeis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Sep 2006 08:44:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jarche.com/?p=887#comment-11353</guid>
		<description>&quot;The focus is to teach to the test&quot;. What? Speechless!

My sons&#039; school also forbids the wearing of hats. I always thought that was to prevent them from hiding their faces from CCTV cameras. I&#039;ve never heard any other explanation and, like you, scoff at the notion that in engenders respect for learning.

On the subject of homework: surprisingly, I actually support the notion. Not necessarily because the kids will learn anything specifically associated with the curriculum of the subject, but because it draws the parents in to what the children are learning at school and develops the home-school partnership. 

Secondly, because the work has to be done outside of school hours, it requires that the child takes ownership of it - organising the time, space and materials required to complete the assignment. This fosters independent working. Of course, when the parent does the work for the child, none of this is achieved and all they learn is how to skive ;-) 

What I do take issue with however, is that the British school day is so long (and that too much of it is spent sitting at a desk). From this vantage point, I do worry about adding to that burden with homework. 

I&#039;ve never understood why British children start school so young and, from the off, have school days that are almost as long as an adult&#039;s working day. I am fairly confident that there is no quantifiable benefit. I would rather see them spend more years at home, start at an older age, finish the school day earlier and spend more time doing sport and cultural activities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The focus is to teach to the test&#8221;. What? Speechless!</p>
<p>My sons&#8217; school also forbids the wearing of hats. I always thought that was to prevent them from hiding their faces from CCTV cameras. I&#8217;ve never heard any other explanation and, like you, scoff at the notion that in engenders respect for learning.</p>
<p>On the subject of homework: surprisingly, I actually support the notion. Not necessarily because the kids will learn anything specifically associated with the curriculum of the subject, but because it draws the parents in to what the children are learning at school and develops the home-school partnership. </p>
<p>Secondly, because the work has to be done outside of school hours, it requires that the child takes ownership of it &#8211; organising the time, space and materials required to complete the assignment. This fosters independent working. Of course, when the parent does the work for the child, none of this is achieved and all they learn is how to skive <img src='http://www.jarche.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' />  </p>
<p>What I do take issue with however, is that the British school day is so long (and that too much of it is spent sitting at a desk). From this vantage point, I do worry about adding to that burden with homework. </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve never understood why British children start school so young and, from the off, have school days that are almost as long as an adult&#8217;s working day. I am fairly confident that there is no quantifiable benefit. I would rather see them spend more years at home, start at an older age, finish the school day earlier and spend more time doing sport and cultural activities.</p>
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		<title>By: Harold</title>
		<link>http://www.jarche.com/2006/09/high-school-confidential/comment-page-1/#comment-11332</link>
		<dc:creator>Harold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Sep 2006 01:58:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jarche.com/?p=887#comment-11332</guid>
		<description>Cam: this seems to be a good place to start to look at the homework question:
http://www.educationnews.org/writers/michael/An_Interview_with_Alfie_Kohn_About_the_Homework_Book.htm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cam: this seems to be a good place to start to look at the homework question:<br />
<a href="http://www.educationnews.org/writers/michael/An_Interview_with_Alfie_Kohn_About_the_Homework_Book.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.educationnews.org/writers/michael/An_Interview_with_Alfie_Kohn_About_the_Homework_Book.htm</a></p>
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